Assume, Presuppose, Trust: The more I talk to an Atheist the more I understand his religion.

Taking a break from our faith, science, and philosophy discussion.  The following is another answer in a debate I am currently having with an atheist.  He assumes that he does not have assumptions or faith and belief.  He presupposes things and believes they are facts or one day will be facts and does not think this is presupposing or faith. Yet I cannot figure out a way to get him to explain his position in a way that proves his statements.

Here is my answer to him/her:

I say something higher so as to include many types of beliefs in a source. And yes I am presupposing a created universe because it was, even if the Big Bang was the creator. The only way it was not created is if it is eternal. But I guess it is possible for you to tell me that the universe both has a beginning and does not, some middle ground of sorts that will allow for a middle of the road faith and ideology.

You assume no time before the Big Bang… and yes your words not mine. Everyone has a foundation assumption. And it does not matter to me if people would stop wasting grant money on abiogenesis for two reasons. One, even though the scientists who believe so strongly that this will one day prove their religion as the correct one, and though that does not look likely, they will still likely learn a lot for man to move forward. They, in their search to disprove notions of a need for a god, higher power etc… will stumble upon something that will help mankind move forward. And two, I just don’t care if they waste grant money. Abiogenesis only works if you believe it because there is no proof for it. But as I believe in something that cannot be proven by science it is only fair that I give the atheist their non-empirical based beliefs. The fact remaining is this: Abiogenesis is a faith based idea and to believe it probable and or even possible is nothing more than faith right now. And even if it were proven, by some miracle that life could spring up from natural processes alone, without an intelligent designer designing in the just right environment that is necessary for life; this does not necessarily mean intelligence was not ever behind it.

As I have stated from the beginning, all I want to do is get people to think. Everyone has the right to put their faith where they see fit. You put it in atheism or science, or some notion that unless we can prove outside the fish bowl does exist and I can show it to you then be skeptical. You assume, based on everything you have said, that no god has revealed in a way that is acceptable to you and no people agree, therefore, based on your line of thinking, any god already mentioned is false. At least that is how it sounds to me.

To say you do not have faith, you have trust is just playing with words. You trust in abiogenesis until proven false and then move on to the next thing that is the flavor of the age to hold up your faith of atheism. To say anything else is a falsehood. Based on our conversations your have made these claims:

1. The Big Bang is the start and there has been no time before it… thus no possibility for other dimensions… though now you say you believe other dimensions to be possible. No way for you to prove any of this. Or who put the material there for the BB to start. Or what other dimension could have caused all these things. Thus you believe in something higher whether you admit it or not. If man could not have done it, it is necessarily true that something more capable than man did do it. No man can start a universe. And this thing, whatever it is, is higher than man.
2. You trust things like abiogenesis, but do not have faith. And think it is possible to walk through life without faith. Okay… I know there is no way for you to prove it so I won’t ask you to.
3. You presuppose a non-created universe which would logically lead to an eternal universe and I am actually willing to give you multiverse for free.
4. And if you are okay with not knowing for the rest of your life, which you have stated then that is fine with me. My blog, what I am about is not for you.
5. That I do not make sense because I say, according to you, “there’s something that only works if you believe it—kind of like pixie dust.”
6. If you think I am illogical, or making poor assumptions about what is, or it incorrect to presuppose anything you are unwilling to presuppose, or if you think stochastic is not random at all, or that things either have purpose or they do not have purpose, or etc… etc… etc… any other assumption that is fine with me.

7. Also, lastly, and finally you use your reason to conclude this:
   

   "Interesting idea, but you are presupposing a created universe. We don't have justification to know ours is, and you already said we don't insert gods into the gaps of our knowledge."

But for some reason you cannot conceptualize a logical idea of there being something outside of the universe unless you can be there to see it. Have you personally seen the trillions of galaxies in our universe, or the incalculable amount of stars? Yet you believe they are there because it is logical. Why can we not state that it is logical to assume a realm outside our Universe, similar to the fact that we are outside binary universe? it does not make god of the gap proclamations to hypothesize that 1's and 0's in binary universe could have this exact same argument/debate as we are having and yet both these guys are not correct. In fact one of them absolutely is correct while the other is absolutely wrong.

So our problem is that our world views are at complete odds. You assume there is no reason to assume anything outside the universe. I think it logical and gives us reasons to explore things like metaphysics. I assume that it is narrow minded to be an atheist who can only believe in what is right there for his physical eyes to see, though he has to rationalize that his thoughts are not things that he can see, nor is hate, evil, good, right. These things are not things seen. Nor will man ever be able to explore the entire universe from start to finish in all periods of time, thus man is always making assumptions about the past, present and future.

I do not insert God as an answer when I cannot find an answer. I believe God is the answer and we can use the tools He has given us. You disagree and that is fine.
But you will tell me I am making assumptions about you and my assumptions are: “When you make assumptions about me and my beliefs, your logic chain kind of goes off of the grooves.” Or at least I assume that will be your response.

I think it is fair to say that you are never going to convince me that my belief is illogical or that there is no good reason for it as I will never convince you that your belief in atheism is not the best.   And just like the 1's and 0's in binary world; one of us is absolutely right and the other absolutely wrong. I have appreciated our conversation and hope the best for you.